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Talk:Vilia
I want to clarify that this character identifies as a woman and uses she/her pronouns in canon, which is why I changed the gender and pronouns on this page from male and he/him to female and she/her. It's just canonically correct. It's the reason why she refuses to speak with you in the game if you misgender her and call her a man. ---- There is absolutely no evidence of Vilia being trans. ---- Separate person here, but it seems pretty clear that Vilia ids as a woman, especially with her refusal to speak to you if you call her otherwise. She refuses outside of Gerudo Town, a place where it theoretically shouldn't matter, but it does. Also, you're making yourselves look bad next to ZeldaWiki (as usual) where they already refer to Vilia as a transgender woman very explicitly. (Don't use facial hair as evidence of gender. That's cissexist and transmisogynistic. You can do better than that.) ---- That is literally not even close to evidence. It's just as reasonable to say he doesn't want his cover blown. Stop trying to scare people with buzzwords and deliver actual evidence. ---- You mean like her adamant refusal to be called a man, even after Link saw her facial hair anyways? Pretty clearly changed nothing. ---- Like his adamant refusal to have his cover blown? ---- The wind picked up and 'blew away her cover' when you get the clothes. That's not an argument. That's just Nintendo aiming at a really poor and transphobic joke. You can find multiple articles on this. ---- Oh, articles like Kotaku. Such reputable sources. Still no evidence from you. Just more buzzwords. ---- I wasn't even gonna refer to Kotaku, but ok. Regardless, using he/him pronouns shuts down all conversation. That is evidence. Regardless of 'cover'. Also what is your evidence that she isn't a woman? Talking about the people that refer to her as man sure doesn't count, because she never refers to herself as one and multiple people (the shop owners for example) refer to her as a woman. So what's your evidence? Unless 'evidence' is just a buzzword without any actual meaning for you. ---- Admittedly there is no evidence this way either. But I still see Vilia as a he, due to the other NPC's in game dialogue, and how Japan has a tradition for doing these kinds of things in their game. Perhaps using "they" as the pronouns would be a common ground? ---- If you desperately can't go for 'she,' they would be the second best option, in my opinion. And perhaps switching the labeled gender to ambiguous or androgynous, if that is the route you want to follow. ---- So who said two people who disagree over a subject couldn't agree nicely on a middle ground? ---- The only thing we are sure, no one here is able to provide an in-game proof, so everything written here is only hypothesis or speculation. As far as nobody knows for now, Vilia may simply be a man who disguises in Gerudo female in order to access the city since the city entry is forbidden. The article content must anyway be rigorous and match the game. Next time someone is continuing the edit warring on page or insult someone here, an admin will act. WiseAdventurer (talk) 01:02, March 16, 2017 (UTC) Any change without in-game proof about the gender or the race of Vilia following my edit, 01:08, March 16, 2017 (UTC), will be now considered edit warring and managed by an admin. WiseAdventurer (talk) 01:17, March 16, 2017 (UTC) ---- Can the race at least be changed back to Hylian? Pretty sure Vilia was called Hylian at some points. I'm sorry, but I am not here to keep the peace. I'm here to discourage transphobia. And Vilia is in fact a woman in the canon of the video game. The shopkeeper that points you in her direction calls her a woman, one of the chat options when talking to her is quote unquote "*eyes her face*" and it doesn't say *eyes HIS face*. Because she's a woman, for the millionth time. This is not an argument, it is very obvious this character is a woman and identifies as such. Gerudo individuals see her as such, because if they didn't they would have kicked her out of Gerudo Town immediately. This whole discussion is a mess. Listen, a wiki is not a place to insert your own opinion. It's based on facts. No amount of speculation is going to change Villia's gender (a person who is referred to as a man and woman). Unless there's concrete evidence, keep it ambiguous. End of discussion. Green Rupee 04:19, March 16, 2017 (UTC) Nefepants, the talk here deals with a fictional character for whom no one is able to provide a real in-game info, so purely speculative. If Vilia is in fact revealed to be just a man disguised in Gerudo woman to access the forbidden place, so a hidden identity and Vilia being not a real name, the article will just indicate this, it will be not a transgender matter. If the game states that Vilia is a transgender woman so this will be indicated in the article as stated in-game, furthermore as it is the case in Xenoblade Chronicles X where there are clearly LGTB characters stated in-game and the articles indicates the info. As far as there is no exact in-game info, everything talks here is just speculation. WiseAdventurer (talk) 13:41, March 16, 2017 (UTC) ---- Would it not be better to refer to Villa as "he or she" to "cover options"? --Metalreflectslime (talk) 12:22, March 16, 2017 (UTC) : Nothing will be changed in the Vilia article as far as no in-game clear info, so proof, can be provided. WiseAdventurer (talk) 13:43, March 16, 2017 (UTC) There is literally more proof for Vilia being a woman than a man You are literally only allowed to refer to Vilia as a woman in the game so why not refer to her as such in the wiki? It seems ridiculous to me to ask for unnatural levels of beating-us-over-the-head-with-it dialogue just to refer to a character the same way they refer to themselves. And if you're really that much against it can we not at least change the "gender" tag to a "sex" one since that we can at least all agree on? --JavelinR (talk) 11:22, April 3, 2017 (UTC) Hey everyone. I'm the one constantly editing Vilia back into a trans woman on ZeldaWiki. The admins there wish to fight it, and promote their transphobic agenda (as was the case with Sheik). If you see it's wrong again, feel free to change it. If these errors keep occurring I *will* boycott ZeldaWiki, and actively suggest people to avoid any wiki who gets these facts incorrect after being corrected so many times. This goes for Zeldapedia as well. Hilariously, the citations used to show she's a Hylian also identify her as a woman. So either she cannot be confirmed Hylian, or she's also a woman. Her trans status is made *very* clear in the game. The rumors being she's male (she is indeed biologically male) and in a typical fashion, the characters are mixed on how they refer to her. Those that have met her refer to her as a Hylian woman (which is how she appears and identifies herself). While others just go off rumors and what they heard (a man of some sort). The only time she's *ever* referred to as a man or male, is by characters who have never met her. She takes literal offense at being called a man, and actively asserts that she's a woman. At no point is the player ever led to believe she identifies as male. Likewise, for those saying she's doing it so she can get in.... She's not even *in* Gerudo Town. She never travels there during the course of the game. And, in fact, the vai within the town are well aware of trans women, and indeed are supportive (albeit, some aren't). Link is deemed okay as long as it's clear he's presenting female, like trans women would. Many of the vai *know* he's biologically male, yet do not kick him out. Thus, we can confirm that the rules for gerudo town are relating to gender expression and identity, rather than biological sex. *Link* is the one who sneaks in, being male and identifying as such, but merely wearing the disguise. Vilia, however, is clearly trans, and even says to come to her if Link needs help getting women's clothes in general (not just vai clothing). If Zeldapedia *also* wishes to reject these facts, then I must boycott both Zeldapedia and ZeldaWiki. As both have shown to not acknowledge the actual facts of the game, and instead wish to promote a transphobic agenda. Simply put: by the raw numbers, there's more proof of vilia being a woman, than there is of her being a man or a hylian (really, if you take a look you can tell she's mixed blood and not pure hylian). By all means, feel free to promote incorrect facts and transphobia. And if you do, I will actively reject and drive people away from any wiki that does so. So for the other people who care about actual facts here, is there any *good* Zelda encyclopedia? ZeldaWiki used to have high standards of quality, and actually cared about being correct. Now they shilled out to gamepedia and twitch, and have transphobic and ignorant administrators. I never really looked to Zeldapedia as accurate, and always have seen it as a lesser quality ZeldaWiki. However, it appears that they're now on the same level: absolute s***. Do I really need to go and start my own? Edit: It appears Zelda Dungeon Wiki does not f*** this up (albeit there was a single vandal edit on the Vilia page). The wiki itself is a bit lacking compared to the others, and a bit more casual, but it works and could easily be the new home for anyone who actually cares about their wiki having actual facts. Edit 2: ZeldaWiki admins have finally stepped in and followed my recommendations, adding a note explaining some extra details but still gendering her female. They also ended up locking the article at this point. That leaves Zeldapedia as the remaining incorrect wiki. --AirplaneApril (talk) 01:13, August 25, 2017 (UTC) :Man it must suck trying to use peer pressure and buzzwords to push incorrect info on everyone. -InnoExo Look, if you're really that concerned with how Vilia identifies, then take it up with Nintendo for confirmation. There's no concrete "evidence" either way, and Vilia could just be a guy in disguise, which is the simplest explanation (Occam's Razor or whatever). It seems that you're assuming that Vilia is trans because he/she dresses as a woman, which seems like a pretty big leap in logic, given that there are plenty of other options. Everything is easily explained assuming he is a man trying not to blow his cover near a town openly hostile to men. Accusing us as being ignorant and transphobic does nothing to help your cause, nor does insulting Zeldapedia, or any other Zelda Wiki, for that matter. This discussion is hardly necessary, and if edit warring continues, blocks will have to be issued in accordance to our rules, which you agreed to when you made an account here. Also, don't swear; we'd like to keep this site as friendly as possible, and civil discourse can never take place when insults are being thrown around. —'Ceiling Master' 12:33, August 26, 2017 (UTC) --- Added all the citations/quotes/whatever you could possibly need. There's more evidence of her being a woman than there is of her being Hylian. It has nothing to do with a 'cause', and only to do with having factual information. The actual facts are: there's a rumor of a man who sneaks into gerudo village. This rumor is debunked throughout the course of the quest, where Link meets vilia, who's a trans woman, and is the person people are referring to. No one who has met her calls her a man. Only those who do not know her. She herself denies being a man, and identifies as female; to the point of refusing to help you if you get it wrong. She has no reason to be disguised where she is, given she's not even near Gerudo Town. Again, if you reject this, not only will Zeldapedia be the only incorrect Zelda Wiki, it'll also be the only one that encourages transphobia and inaccuracy relating to the games. Is this really the hill you want to die on? Being adamantly wrong just so you can be transphobic? Either way, it appears ZeldaWiki is at least willing to listen, even *if* they have some awful members/admins there. --AirplaneApril (talk) 00:55, August 30, 2017 (UTC) :Again, this is all speculation on your part. The "facts" you use as evidence are just as hypothetical, if not moreso, as assuming that Vilia is male. Given that there are only rumors, and no concrete in-game evidence of Vilia being a woman, we have to assume that the situation is as the game portrays it. Until there is a source explicitly saying that Vilia is transgender, we have to go with what the game tells us; in the quest log for Forbidden City Entry, it says "You were able to find the man who snuck into Gerudo Town, and you got a Gerudo outfit from him." Being the only non-rumor reference to Vilia's gender, we must assume he is male. :I can assure you that Zeldapedia does not support transphobia, nor does Wikia in general, and once again, accusing us of that is not only ridiculous, but actively hurts your case. I would also encourage you not to threaten brigading of our or any other sites, and to cease the edit warring. The page has been locked, since you cannot seem to carry on a civil discussion, and if you continue to break our rules, you will receive a block. Zeldapedia is not the place to insert your opinion, progressive or not. —'Ceiling Master' 12:20, August 30, 2017 (UTC) --- Was it not established that the decided upon gender to give Vilia "male? - : Yesterday, I firstly fully reverted the new change made by Genderquery (account created just for this edit), then I preferred to abstain from reverting all, after reading more quotes, and by taking a look at Gamepedia's Zelda Wiki Vilia article, I see that they have finally decided to change once again the gender by providing rather solid arguments. So I do not know what to decide definitively for now. What is sure, Vilia was originally a Hylian man and currently wear Gerudo clothes and refers to herself as a woman and denies any accusation of being a disguised man. There is no in-game clear proof whether Vilia plays cross-dressing and is just making fun considering to be a female in order to never be caught by Gerudos and for fear of compromising his disguise strategy, or Vilia is a transgender and seriously takes on her female nature. This needs to be cleared or discussed again. WiseAdventurer (talk) 18:01, January 23, 2018 (UTC) Why not keep it gender neutral then, since this has shown to inspire edit wars in the part? - :Because Vilia seems to refer to herself as a woman and apparently wants people to consider her a woman with use of the "female" pronouns...WiseAdventurer (talk) 20:32, January 23, 2018 (UTC) male (disguised as female) what are you? transphobic? i am pikapika200 (talk) 17:48, February 22, 2019 (UTC)